Copyright Info

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bob

Administrator
Staff member
#1
I just had a rather interesting discussion about copyrights. In brief, I was told that a certain other site stated that if you posted images there, then they owned all rights to them and you could not post them elsewhere.

OK, I'm not a lawyer, and I didn't see the agreement members signed. However, I sincerely doubt they signed something agreeing to grant him exclusive rights to their work.

In any case, let's talk about this site. Anything you post becomes mine, along with all other images that you have on your computer at the time! (Sorry, couldn't resist being a wiseguy)

Serious answer... When you post images on this site, you are granting me permission to use those images on this website, and related pages such as the photo gallery.

However, YOU RETAIN ALL RIGHTS TO THE IMAGE. You are the copyright holder. While you've granted me permission to use your images, you are not giving the copyrights to me. I can not tell you that you are not permitted to post the images elsewhere, or sell them, or do anything else you want with them, after all, they're your images!

That's my best understanding of how it works, and it's also how I intend to do things on this site. I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV, so there may be some legal points I've overlooked, but the bottom line is that posting your photos here does not limit your rights to those photos in any way.
 

bob

Administrator
Staff member
#2
On a related note. As a photographer, I take copyrights very seriously. Please make certain that you have the rights to post an image here, and that you can prove that.

Typically that will happen in one of three ways.

1) You're the photographer, and thus the copyright holder.

2) The image is in the public domain and/or permission is granted under a creative commons license or similar arrangement. (You must be able to document that, and saying "well, I found it on the web" does not qualify)

3) You have the photographers permission to post, and again can document this. Typically this would be a friend or family member, but it could be anyone, as long as you have their permission.

Persons who do not respect copyrights and use images and/or text without proper permission will be removed from the forum.

But wait you say, I saw this great article / image on the web and I've just got to share it with everyone. You can still do that, without violating copyright. For example, you see a wonderful article on gardening in the New York Times. If you copy and paste the article here, I'll get rather grumpy. But you can post a brief description and a link to the article and be perfectly legal. So please do that when needed.

Thanks!
 
#3
On a related note. As a photographer, I take copyrights very seriously. Please make certain that you have the rights to post an image here, and that you can prove that.

Typically that will happen in one of three ways.

1) You're the photographer, and thus the copyright holder.

2) The image is in the public domain and/or permission is granted under a creative commons license or similar arrangement. (You must be able to document that, and saying "well, I found it on the web" does not qualify)

3) You have the photographers permission to post, and again can document this. Typically this would be a friend or family member, but it could be anyone, as long as you have their permission.

Persons who do not respect copyrights and use images and/or text without proper permission will be removed from the forum.

But wait you say, I saw this great article / image on the web and I've just got to share it with everyone. You can still do that, without violating copyright. For example, you see a wonderful article on gardening in the New York Times. If you copy and paste the article here, I'll get rather grumpy. But you can post a brief description and a link to the article and be perfectly legal. So please do that when needed.

Thanks!
That's exactly the way to do it. It will cover your behind, our behinds and not get anyone in legal trouble.

As for not posting content elsewhere, as long as you haven't made some agreement with anyone or any site for which you grant whoever the parties are, the exclusive rights to post that content, then you are free to post it elsewhere. Unless there is an exclusivity clause, then they don't own the content and they cannot prohibit you from posting it elsewhere. If another site has a policy that prohibits you from posting content you've posted elsewhere (which happens a lot with writing sites,) then you're free to do whatever you please with it.

I know what site you are talking about Bob, and since it appears that all of the content is gone, I think everyone should feel a bit of relief that they aren't locked into anything they didn't wish to agree to in the first place.
 

Flower4Yeshua

Super Moderator & vegemm
Staff member
#5
Bob, I wish you had been there on the other site when all this came up...I was one that had an issue with being told a few of the recipes I posted there, that were my grannies, could no longer be posted any where eles...what you have said here was my point to them...I am glad you are geting this all laid out from the get go....
 

bob

Administrator
Staff member
#6
Bob, I wish you had been there on the other site when all this came up...I was one that had an issue with being told a few of the recipes I posted there, that were my grannies, could no longer be posted any where eles...what you have said here was my point to them...I am glad you are geting this all laid out from the get go....
OK, I'm going to break my own rules and be a bit critical of him. Sorry...

There's obviously one of two things going on here:

1) He does not understand copyrights.

2) He does, and he's trying to intimidate folks with a load of hogwash.

You cannot copyright a recipe. You can easily find that info on the US Copyright office website:

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html

How do I protect my recipe?
A mere listing of ingredients is not protected under copyright law. However, where a recipe or formula is accompanied by substantial literary expression in the form of an explanation or directions, or when there is a collection of recipes as in a cookbook, there may be a basis for copyright protection. Note that if you have secret ingredients to a recipe that you do not wish to be revealed, you should not submit your recipe for registration, because applications and deposit copies are public records. See FL 122, Recipes.
Now, if you grandmother fancied herself an author, and had flowing prose telling you to do something like "whisk the egg whites until they're fluffy as fresh snow, not too fluffy, but not too thick..." (i.e. "substantial literary expression") then he might have a case. Note that still it's only "might" and the requirements for copyright are still strict. Assuming the recipe had already been published, or was based on an existing work, then it still does not apply.

But most grandmother's recipes I've seen simply list the ingredients and give basic steps like "Cook at 350 for 20 minutes"

Nobody can copyright that info, so he has absolutely no claim to it.

Sorry for the rant, but I hate it when people try and take advantage of other people...
 
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#7
Bob I posted 2 pictures in the "Pictures of Past gardens" that I "found" someplace, not sure where. Am I infringing on a possible copyright? Should I delete these photos? I sure as heck don't want to get kicked off here and did it, not being aware of this situation.
 

Flower4Yeshua

Super Moderator & vegemm
Staff member
#8
sharon...could you get ahold of th epeople who's yards they are and get their OK that you have shared their yards?...if not maybe deleting them would be best..
 

Randy

Super Moderator
Staff member
#9
I did that. I have two farmer friends and both of them raise blueberries. I took a whole roll of digital photos (LOL) at one of the farms and I told the farmer what I had in mind and got his blessing. But I also loaded the photos onto a CD so he could have a copy. There is another farm I would like to shoot though and I would have to ask permission to even go on the property, so asking to use the pictures taken would hardly be an issue. But that particular farm raises strawberries and a more beautiful field of berries, you have never seen. Some questions have arisen in the past also about pruning berry vines and even grape vines. Our county here is very big into grapes and consequently, wineries. Right now is a great time to shoot some vineyards so people can get a look first hand and how a properly pruned grape vine(s) should look. One of my other friends runs crews that maintain several vineyards, so I have a good line in there with permission to shoot some photos and maybe even a winery operation.
 
#10
Debe I went back into the thread and deleted the pictures, just to be on the safe side.
It's amazing how you can get into trouble or get other people in trouble and not even know why. Now I know ---only my pictures are going in here. It's to bad because I have pictures of some very beautiful gardens that I saved to use for ideas in future gardens.
 
#11
Sharon, I don't know if there's a problem with you posting pictures of gardens -- say public gardens, if you took the pictures while you walked through them. As long as you took the pictures, I don't think there is a problem -- unless the garden has some regulation about taking pictures.

As for recipes, if you wrote a cookbook, couldn't you copyright the recipes that way?

Bob, I don't think it's a question of misunderstanding things. It is more a question of wanting to be able to control everything possible, and to try to intimidate people by preventing them from sharing content elsewhere. He did believe that content posted on multiple sites could impact revenue from Google Ad Sense. Since I do a lot of writing and post it on sites for which I get paid, I do know that you cannot post content on a site that receives revenue from Google Ad Sense or Ad Words and then post it on another site that receives the same revenue from Google. I discovered that by reading Google's fine print.
 

RonsGarden

Super Moderator
Staff member
#12
Well said Bob!
I've always been a stickler about copyrights.
Instead of posting someone else's photo, or quote someone, post a link to the site.
My thoughts on my photos is that they are mine and can post them or take them back as I see fit since I can give permission as well as cancel that permission!
On a particular site I took back my photos and as accused of stealing them as well as breaking a trust! The breakage of trust was on their end, and I was just taking back what was mine and removing the permission to use my photos!

Has anyone been keeping track on what's happening on Facebook?
 
#13
For the most part you should be able to put up any photos you have taken yourself regardeless of the property owner unless the owner has a clearly stated and posted no photo with out permission policy.
 

bob

Administrator
Staff member
#14
Bob I posted 2 pictures in the "Pictures of Past gardens" that I "found" someplace, not sure where. Am I infringing on a possible copyright? Should I delete these photos? I sure as heck don't want to get kicked off here and did it, not being aware of this situation.
Yes, I'm afraid you'll need to delete the images if you don't know the owner of the images. That's a bit harsh I know, but it's the only way to respect copyrights.

As for getting kicked off, that's not a problem for you or any other member. In case of something like this the person is first given the opportunity to correct the problem. As long as they do that, there's no issue.

It's when somebody ignores the rules, and does so repeatedly, then we have an issue that could ultimately result in them being banned and all of their posts removed to avoid any question of ownership.

I feel it's possible to be both strict and fair. :)
 

bob

Administrator
Staff member
#15
Since I do a lot of writing and post it on sites for which I get paid...
Just as an aside, if you're working for a site, and getting paid to do so, then that's a different matter. I suspect that they could, in that case, reasonably expect that they retain rights to the work you produced as their employee. Your compensation would of course be your paycheck.

My comments were intended for folks who are simply forum members, and submitting stuff without compensation.


I do know that you cannot post content on a site that receives revenue from Google Ad Sense or Ad Words and then post it on another site that receives the same revenue from Google. I discovered that by reading Google's fine print.
I would appreciate it if you can show me that fine print. I think that it applies more to wholesale duplication of sites rather than individual images etc, but I would definitely like to read it.
 

Flower4Yeshua

Super Moderator & vegemm
Staff member
#16
Debe I went back into the thread and deleted the pictures, just to be on the safe side.
It's amazing how you can get into trouble or get other people in trouble and not even know why. Now I know ---only my pictures are going in here. It's to bad because I have pictures of some very beautiful gardens that I saved to use for ideas in future gardens.
Well...Now I guess my question is this...If we visit a public Garden and take pictures do we need to get premission to post those pictures? I have a huge amount of pictures we took when we were at the Botanical Garden's in Humbolt County...was going to start a thread...should I not do that?...or is it just if they are not our own pictures?...I love getting this all straight from the get go...Great conversaton I have to say.
 
#17
Just as an aside, if you're working for a site, and getting paid to do so, then that's a different matter. I suspect that they could, in that case, reasonably expect that they retain rights to the work you produced as their employee. Your compensation would of course be your paycheck.

My comments were intended for folks who are simply forum members, and submitting stuff without compensation.




I would appreciate it if you can show me that fine print. I think that it applies more to wholesale duplication of sites rather than individual images etc, but I would definitely like to read it.
I'll see if I can find it. I remember encountering it when I was attempting to submit content or a link to my blog to to some place that uses Google Ad Sense for some of their revenue, and because I happened to have Google Ad Sense on my blog, I couldn't do it. I think it was in the terms of use or something. It seemed to me that the point was that they didn't want two competing sites who both get revenue from Google Ad Sense to post identical content.

One way to cover your behind if you're posting recipes, photos or anything else, is to clarify in your post that you are using it with the permission of "so and so."
 

RonsGarden

Super Moderator
Staff member
#18
Well...Now I guess my question is this...If we visit a public Garden and take pictures do we need to get premission to post those pictures? I have a huge amount of pictures we took when we were at the Botanical Garden's in Humbolt County...was going to start a thread...should I not do that?...or is it just if they are not our own pictures?...I love getting this all straight from the get go...Great conversaton I have to say.
If you take photos during a flower show (and photo taking is aloud) you can use them as long as you give credit to, in your case, the Botanical Garden's in Humbolt County.
 

bob

Administrator
Staff member
#20
Well...Now I guess my question is this...If we visit a public Garden and take pictures do we need to get premission to post those pictures? I have a huge amount of pictures we took when we were at the Botanical Garden's in Humbolt County...was going to start a thread...should I not do that?...or is it just if they are not our own pictures?...I love getting this all straight from the get go...Great conversaton I have to say.
Like Ron said, if it's a public place, and they're allowing photography, then you should be since you're the photographer.

I know a few places, such as Disneyland, get sticky about commercial use of their images, but I don't think this forum would qualify as commercial use, since you're not selling the photos or getting paid to post them etc. It would be different if you put one on a coffee mug and sold those someplace.
 


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